Curse

N1ghtstalker · Jul 26, 2010, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Cultural differences aren't new to anyone, but it seems that even in Guild Wars, people can't accept different languages in their district.

I've been playing for quite a long time now, 3 years to be more exact and i've been finding my "cosy spot" in the european english district of Kamadan.

Now it has been so that there have been alot of different languages here in kamadan and probably everywhere really, that different languages are used there. English, German, Dutch, Italian, French and other foreign European languages, all in the same district.

It would seem that some people do not want other languages in their district, a distinct patriotism wants that 'their' English district stays English and that other languages are not welcome there.

So now i'm wanting to open the debate on this. As a Belgian player i have always spoken English publically to other people and when needed, switched language to communicate with other people.

Do districts really need to be specific, language-bound? Or do other people here accept other people in their districts to have a conversation in their language.

Please note that not all languages have their districts, there have already been discussions about the Dutch invading other districts but there are more than just the Dutch that are left districtless, like the Finish, Danish, Swedish, etc,...

So right now as i'm typing there is already a discussion going on, what started out as a small argumentation of the Dutch language not being welcome in the English district is now going on as a full scale flamewar with the typical "We have this, so we are better than you" discussion.

What are the people's thoughts on multicultural differences?
Are we to just shove all these people to international, to throw all these different languages into one district, resulting into one large "goo" of mixed languages where the old communication medium can only be used to communicate between other languages: English.

It's a tightrope, but don't let this be a taboo.
I hope i can get some constructive comments on this and hope we can get to an understanding. Because we are all under the same large banners, American, European, Asian, African or Australian.

Aeronwen · Jul 26, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

or we could just ignore the bores who flame about other languages in a district.

Fate Crusher · Jul 26, 2010, 12:52 PM // 12:52

The different districts are there for people's convenience. I don't mind if a group of Dutch players are speaking in All Chat in the English District. firstly becaue i know they don't have their own district, and secondly because who am I to say that they can not speak their own language there?

The districts are only an option. If players feel like it is their right to communicate in whatever language, other players also have the right to oppose. And by oppose, it should be so that they kindly ask to respect the district but carry on if they must.

Treat others as you wish for them to treat you.

I see no debate on this, to be honest. It fundamentally goes down to people's ignorance and their lack of respect over the internet.

AmbientMelody · Jul 26, 2010, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

Cultural differences aren't new to anyone, but it seems that even in Guild Wars, people can't accept different languages in their district.

I've been playing for quite a long time now, 3 years to be more exact and i've been finding my "cosy spot" in the european english district of Kamadan.

Now it has been so that there have been alot of different languages here in kamadan and probably everywhere really, that different languages are used there. English, German, Dutch, Italian, French and other foreign European languages, all in the same district.

It would seem that some people do not want other languages in their district, a distinct patriotism wants that 'their' English district stays English and that other languages are not welcome there.

So now i'm wanting to open the debate on this. As a Belgian player i have always spoken English publically to other people and when needed, switched language to communicate with other people.

Do districts really need to be specific, language-bound? Or do other people here accept other people in their districts to have a conversation in their language.

Please note that not all languages have their districts, there have already been discussions about the Dutch invading other districts but there are more than just the Dutch that are left districtless, like the Finish, Danish, Swedish, etc,...

So right now as i'm typing there is already a discussion going on, what started out as a small argumentation of the Dutch language not being welcome in the English district is now going on as a full scale flamewar with the typical "We have this, so we are better than you" discussion.

What are the people's thoughts on multicultural differences?
Are we to just shove all these people to international, to throw all these different languages into one district, resulting into one large "goo" of mixed languages where the old communication medium can only be used to communicate between other languages: English.

It's a tightrope, but don't let this be a taboo.
I hope i can get some constructive comments on this and hope we can get to an understanding. Because we are all under the same large banners, American, European, Asian, African or Australian.

It's a two-way street.

Either delete language-specific districts, or keep the things as they are and bear with 'I didn't join X district to hear incomprehensible babble!'.

Fabez · Jul 26, 2010, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I see it happen from time to time, but it doesn't bother me at all. People can flame and rant all they want for all I care, I'll just sit back with some popcorn and laugh at their stupidity.

I don't care what nationality you are, as long as you speak English when trying to converse with me.

dare49devil · Jul 26, 2010, 01:20 PM // 13:20

-I actually don't mind it. If anything I'm getting more cultured by reading (or rather, attempting to read) a different language.

McMullen · Jul 26, 2010, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Doesn't bother me at all, plus I've learned how to buy and sell stuff in German. If 'all' chat gets a bit too spammy for my liking (no matter what language), I just turn it off.
I guess those who complain are just trolls. Ignore list is super effective.

Also, remember when the European English district was changed to European Common? There was plenty of uproar about that and the majority of complaints were along the lines of "I don't want to see any other language in MY district!". I think the common district only lasted about 1 month before being reverted back to English.

Safer Saviour · Jul 26, 2010, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Not long ago, me as an SS, a Rit and a War got pulled into a mostly eastern European group for a ZB. They were speaking some language I didn't understand and only one of them was able to (shakily) translate but I was able to pick up enough GW terminology to know what they wanted me to bring, so the language barrier wasn't a problem.

All the way to the dungeon, the War was bitching about the language being used, even though the translator was telling him everything he needed to know. There was obviously more chatter going on, but it didn't bother me because stuff was getting done and the group seemed to be working well. Half way into the dungeon the War, our only melee, lets loose this stupid rant and quits because of the language issue. Still, after a little trouble with one monk getting gliched into place (we managed to get him free), we finished the dungeon.

As you've probably guessed, the member of the party that annoyed me was one I could understand perfectly.

That wasn't the first time I've successfully grouped with players who don't speak my language. I'm English, I've played for four years and it wasn't always so easy to jump to the American server and find people speaking my language. Playing with French, German, Dutch etc. players can still be fun and you can still accomplish whatever you're setting out to do.

Dame Laureline · Jul 26, 2010, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Well, I expect in English district people speaking English, in German people speaking German, and so on. It's a curtesy to speak the language of the place you are, no ?

Almost everybody in the world learned (or even is learning) English at scholl, and English is the international language. Most important sites are either in English or partly in English. People not able to speak Korean, Japanse, Chinese, French, German or Spanish should make efforts to speak English, as it's really unacceptable to not be able to communicate in English today.

Missmelady · Jul 26, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

Cultural differences aren't new to anyone, but it seems that even in Guild Wars, people can't accept different languages in their district.

I've been playing for quite a long time now, 3 years to be more exact and i've been finding my "cosy spot" in the european english district of Kamadan.

Now it has been so that there have been alot of different languages here in kamadan and probably everywhere really, that different languages are used there. English, German, Dutch, Italian, French and other foreign European languages, all in the same district.

It would seem that some people do not want other languages in their district, a distinct patriotism wants that 'their' English district stays English and that other languages are not welcome there.

So now i'm wanting to open the debate on this. As a Belgian player i have always spoken English publically to other people and when needed, switched language to communicate with other people.

Do districts really need to be specific, language-bound? Or do other people here accept other people in their districts to have a conversation in their language.

Please note that not all languages have their districts, there have already been discussions about the Dutch invading other districts but there are more than just the Dutch that are left districtless, like the Finish, Danish, Swedish, etc,...

So right now as i'm typing there is already a discussion going on, what started out as a small argumentation of the Dutch language not being welcome in the English district is now going on as a full scale flamewar with the typical "We have this, so we are better than you" discussion.

What are the people's thoughts on multicultural differences?
Are we to just shove all these people to international, to throw all these different languages into one district, resulting into one large "goo" of mixed languages where the old communication medium can only be used to communicate between other languages: English.

It's a tightrope, but don't let this be a taboo.
I hope i can get some constructive comments on this and hope we can get to an understanding. Because we are all under the same large banners, American, European, Asian, African or Australian.

As an avid ha and gvger of some time the language barrier has never bothered me mainly because I knew my role and what I had to do even if I could not understand what they were saying. In ha this language barrier is worse than anywhere in the game.

Anywho the reason that most "americans" (i am american) flame and troll people that are speaking other languages is most likely linked to the fact that most schools no longer teach a forign language between grades 2 and 7 anymore and only require 2 years of a foriegn language in highschool usually with the choices being French and Spanish. After spending some time in Spain after highschool graduation I can tell you that the Spanish taught in schools is not practical in the outside world. Therefor I would say taht 75-85% of Americans can only speak English and maybe understand a few words in Spanish or French. So in my opinion people speaking 2 or 3 or even like they teach in europe in some countries 4 or 5 differnt languages in school intimidates Americans and or makes us jealous.

The only thing that annoys the crap outta me is when someone starts yelling at you over vent and you can not understand them. After kicking them from the group they spam you in pm's with yet more that you do not understand. IF you are raging at me or trying to make me feel small like any other ebully it would prolly do ya good to do it in a language that the person understands otherwise it has no meaning.

Safer Saviour · Jul 26, 2010, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dame Laureline

Well, I expect in English district people speaking English, in German people speaking German, and so on. It's a curtesy to speak the language of the place you are, no ?

No. Certainly not if you're just visiting.

Quote:

Almost everybody in the world learned (or even is learning) English at scholl, and English is the international language. Most important sites are either in English or partly in English. People not able to speak Korean, Japanse, Chinese, French, German or Spanish should make efforts to speak English, as it's really unacceptable to not be able to communicate in English today.

Where on earth do you get this? There are people in the world who never attend school and of those that do, there are many who are either never offered the opportunity to learn English or who choose to take another language instead. For instance, many Japanese schools offer French but not English and a French student might choose to take German or Spanish instead of English. There are also many students who do take English, but never develop at it.

Oh, and a number of large, influential sites (e.g. Japan's 2chan and the 'human flesh' engines in China) aren't in English and most of the really important sites offer multiple languages.

Missmelady · Jul 26, 2010, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dame Laureline

Well, I expect in English district people speaking English, in German people speaking German, and so on. It's a curtesy to speak the language of the place you are, no ?

Almost everybody in the world learned (or even is learning) English at scholl, and English is the international language. Most important sites are either in English or partly in English. People not able to speak Korean, Japanse, Chinese, French, German or Spanish should make efforts to speak English, as it's really unacceptable to not be able to communicate in English today.

I beg to differ with this. If you live in say germany, it may be unpractical for you to learn English if you are never A. Going anywhere that speaks English. B. Not someone that requires English for the job. C. It is a Fing video game get over yourself.

Tullzinski · Jul 26, 2010, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

The different districts are there for people's convenience. I don't mind if a group of Dutch players are speaking in All Chat in the English District. firstly becaue i know they don't have their own district, and secondly because who am I to say that they can not speak their own language there?

The districts are only an option. If players feel like it is their right to communicate in whatever language, other players also have the right to oppose. And by oppose, it should be so that they kindly ask to respect the district but carry on if they must.

Treat others as you wish for them to treat you.

I see no debate on this, to be honest. It fundamentally goes down to people's ignorance and their lack of respect over the internet.

This pretty much sums it up from my point of view.

Now if I had my way we would be in the Monty Python Dist. NI!!

Dame Laureline · Jul 26, 2010, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safer Saviour

No. Really, no.

So, we don't have the same definition of curtesy. That means will probably rarely agree on what's a good behavior.

Quote:

Where on earth do you get this? There are people in the world who never attend school

Yes, maybe, but they didn't learn to write and read, and they don't own a computer, so if you're strictly right, they don't play GW, so that's a mute point.

Quote:

and of those that do, there are many who are either never offered the opportunity to learn English or who choose to take another language instead. For instance, many Japanese schools offer French

Don't they usually offer English too ? You would have said Algeria, Viet Nam, OK, but I'm pretty sure Japanese are more used to English language than French. Anyway there's a Japanese district.

Quote:

French student might choose to take German or Spanish instead of English. There are also many students who do take English, but never develop at it.

There's a French district. Many French with internet are capable to speak English fluently. The others have no reason to quit French district.

Quote:

There are also a number of large, important sites (e.g. 2chan and the 'human flesh' engines in China) that aren't in English and most of the really important sites offer multiple languages.

If most of the really important site offer multiple languages they are partly in English, aren't they ?

Benderama · Jul 26, 2010, 02:16 PM // 14:16

i kinda get what the OP's saying, but what a few people were annoyed about was the fact that (in the euro, english district for example) other languages were taking over, though this was only because there wasn't already a district for dutch. to be honest i wouldn't mind if there were just servers, with no server being labeled as a certain language. at least this is better than other games where its euro servers which europeans must use e.t.c.

anyway regarding the english euro district, its pointless. i've never seen that district go above 2 or 3 in LA for at least 2 years )other than festival times) theres the american districs where people speak english as well, so its not like there isn't a community for them. people can switch districts anywa.

Spiritz · Jul 26, 2010, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

What are the people's thoughts on multicultural differences?
Are we to just shove all these people to international, to throw all these different languages into one district, resulting into one large "goo" of mixed languages where the old communication medium can only be used to communicate between other languages: English.

If they did that then international would actually have a use .
Im in a multi national alliance with mixed races ( dunno if race is right word ) and when we get new recruits who are non english native i always let them know they can speak their native language - none of us have a problem with it and it makes them feel they are not being forced to speak a language they may not be confident in speaking.

Quaker · Jul 26, 2010, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Personally, I don't care if people are speaking a "foreign" language in an "English" district. A lot of the chatter generated by supposedly "english" speaking people is so badly spelled, un-punctuated, and grammatically mangled, that it's practically a foreign language anyway. Most of the time I have "all" chat turned off anyway.
Bottom line is that those who would complain about it are usually just ignorant. The same sort of ignorance that would think "America" (as in, a region or continent) means "USA".

majoho · Jul 26, 2010, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

I beg to differ with this. If you live in say germany, it may be unpractical for you to learn English if you are never A. Going anywhere that speaks English. B. Not someone that requires English for the job. C. It is a Fing video game get over yourself.

How about YOU chill out you're the one that seems to work yourself into a frenzy.

I agree with that other posting saying that out of courtesy you should speak the language of the district you are in. It seems like some people in this thread don't know what courtesy means, I'm guessing the usual people that like that they can be annoying a-holes because they are anonymous and thus "it's just a game".

Yes it's "just a game" but what is that even supposed to mean? It's a place where I spend my time so I'd prefer if I understand what people are saying when they are talking IN PUBLIC.

Safer Saviour · Jul 26, 2010, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dame Laureline

So, we don't have the same definition of curtesy. That means will probably rarely agree on what's a good behavior.

Interesting assumption. Try living in Europe and enforcing that 'speak the language of the place you're at' rule of yours. Hell, just go to Wales. Most people speak English there, but if you want to be 'courteous', you should speak Welsh, no?

Quote:

Yes, maybe, but they didn't learn to write and read, and they don't own a computer, so if you're strictly right, they don't play GW, so that's a mute point.

Many of them do learn to read and write. Going to school isn't the only way you can absorb that sort of knowledge.

And aren't you forgetting the home-schooled?

Quote:

Don't they usually offer English too ? You would have said Algeria, Viet Nam, OK, but I'm pretty sure Japanese are more used to English language than French. Anyway there's a Japanese district.

Some schools offer it, many don't.

Quote:

There's a French district. Many French with internet are capable to speak English fluently. The others have no reason to quit French district.

I quit the European districts because there are usually more players on the American districts. If there are only five people in an outpost, switching from district to district to pick up more players seems logical. Back before I could play on the American servers, many English groups would head to the well-populated German server to grab an ever illusive monk or whatever.

Quote:

If most of the really important site offer multiple languages they are partly in English, aren't they ?

Doesn't mean everyone's reading them in English. Hell, Spanish is the world's most widly spoken first language.

Killed u man · Jul 26, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I'm Belgian myself, and I think we should plea for a dutch district! :P

I find myself to be more of a language-nazi when it comes down to languages in districts. However, I don't ever insult people, but rather tell them to go talk Russian/Polish/German/French in their own district.

Even people speaking languages which don't have their own districts often get critized by me. Heck, I even told a dutch person to speak english in all chat, rather than dutch.

The irritation I have comes from real life I think. Since you live in Belgium aswell, you should know about the "verfransing" and the immigration of muslims (Turks, Marrokans, etc.). The core of these issues, aswell as the language barrier in GW, is the same: It's about hospitality towards other people.

Accepting other people to have their own customs and own languages is something I find natural. This is why we allow French speaking (Wallons?) people to speak French, obviously, and vice versa. It's why we allow French speaking Guild Wars players to speak French in their own assigned districts. (French is just the example, you can replace it with every language) And there is enough empty districts for the many languages which don't have their own districts.

However, when you are in a public place which in this case can be concidered English and International District, it's just as natural that you assume non-native speakers do atleast attempt to speak English (International language) solely so that English speaking people (Aka the natives) don't get the feeling they're the odd one out in their own district.

Courtesy has to go both ways. And this is the issue at heart here. In both the real life-Belgian issues where Frenchies refuse to speak Dutch even if they are in the Flemish part, and where eastern-immigrants (mainly muslims) refuse to do any form of integration, or sometimes even expect the hosting country to make more efforts to let them live their own lifestyle.

If you're in whatever district, you should speak that district's language. Why? Out of courtesy for the hundreds of other people who will otherwise feel allienated from their own district if they see strange languages getting spammed in all-chat.

Chauvenism ftw!